The Texas Senate Committee on State Affairs convened Wednesday morning to discuss various topics to include the legal status of cannabinoids found in legal hemp products.

Senator Bryan Hughes chaired the committee with Senator Angela Paxton as Vice-Chair. Around 5pm in the afternoon the topic was finally brought to the front of the dockett to be discussed.

Sen. Perry early in the hearing made the claim that he told the hemp advocates in 2019 that they “shouldn’t get cute” and go about making any intoxicating products. This item came up as an a DPS agent was testifying was presenting that they are not able to distinguish roadside between any of the thc products. Shops not being licensed for hemp retail was brought up as an inquiry but the response was that it’s not significant to the point of being a problem the state needs to focus on.

Sen. Perry referred asked the panel whether cartel is being involved in making the delta-8 products people see on shelves. The panel of expert witnesses didn’t address it as being a cartel issue, but that it’s difficult to track where product is being made, even in the United States. It was noted that quite a few products have come up with heavy metals such as lead during testing, with no real way of knowing if that’s a Texas issue or not. Sen. Menendez on the committee remarked about making sure products are tested and have a seal for Texas that show it conforms to standards if sold in the state.

The conversation took a turn at a point afterwards that would be referred to as the defence of the innocence of children from a Dr on the panel. A comparison was made to the effects of intoxicating hemp vs intoxicating alcohol and that access to each for a child is detrimental and that access is being given to children while alcohol isn’t somehow.

Sen. Perry returned to the notion that the Texas bill was passed to only help the hemp farming industry, but not at the expense of people having a product on the market they did not explicitly ask for. He then cites that it needs administrative oversight for it, despite it does to an extent right now regardless of him mentioning such.

Sen. Paxton inquired about what can be done if products are not labeled properly, are there products that are exceeding legal limits, and the frequency of such an issue. The response from the panel was that there have been cases of such, but yet again it has not been many and not a significant problem from the reports they get. Paxton also inquired as to how children ingesting cannabis and brought to the ER was being handled along with the outcomes for those children. This resulted in the Dr testifying that the products be age gated, child proof packing, and labeled as such.

Stats were read out about the number of accidental ingestion cases have been taking place for given age groups in the state of Texas. It was noted that the number has gone up since the beginning of the program in 2019.

There were claims that there are states that claim they are regretting legalizing cannabis, such as Colorado or even legalizing hemp. No state has done such. States have been making laws against intoxicating hemp on the basis that the medical and legal marijuana side of the industries has not welcomed the competition or lax regulations for standards compared to the industries they are in respectively.

On a new panel of testimony Dr. Pete Stout that oversees state testing labs, testified about how turnaround for state labs has become a 100+ day item as the complexity of testing has changed drastically. Stout was open that he wouldn’t be able to speak with a perspective on people that are compliant because if him or his crew are involved with your product, it’s because you’ve gone incredibly wrong and did “dumb things.”

Nico Richardson, CEO of Texas Original Compassionate Cultivation, testified that there is severe underegulation on the Texas hemp industry. He noted the comparison on how each industry is operated in the state to cover storing goods, the testing requirements, cost, time from manufacture to consumer hands, and availability to consumers. He pointed out how uneconomical the medical program is with how the state set it up and regulates it.

Sen Perry asks Richardson why consumers are going for delta-8 vs delta-9 and not utilizing the delta-9 in the hemp or medical program. He points to it possibly being greed when asking Richardson. Richardson notes that the 0.3% cap on delta-9 make it uneconomical vs delta-8 without that cap. Sen. Perry tried to make the comparison over overregulation pushing out the good guys in the legal marijuana program and letting the bad guys thrive, to which Richardson noted that it’s the opposite here, lack of proper regulation is letting possible bad actors thrive in the hemp program with a lack of decent regulation and oversight put over it vs the medical program with insanely strict standards that consumers cannot afford.

Questions were brought up about proximity to schools with the hemp program or medical program. It was pointed in wording asking if kids would be able to easily access the products via a method such as vending machines. The panelists noted that they know of no regulation preventing it, but also know of no retailer doing such actions either.

It was noted by Dr. Stout that it is not currently possible to identify how intoxicated someone is with a given amount of THC in their system the same way the toxicology lab can do so with alcohol concentration in the blood. He notes it as he cannot determine how stupid you got or how impaired you became based on those levels with any THC molecule, including studied heavily delta-9.

After a short break public testimony took place from the public. On the first panel an individual claims that her kids is addicted to cannabis, it’s costing her family thousands of dollars a month to handle, and that it’s just happening to kids at a regular rate with a recommendation of a full ban across the board asap to save the children.

Former Texas Ag Commissioner Candidate and attorney Susan Hays testified. She noted that the state has lagged behind and despite not wanting to become California that Texas became California with its market not being addressed in a timely manner.

One testimony noted that they went into stores that sell products and that because the products are packaged with flashy [packing similar to popular products that are not cannabis products, that it entices kids to try these products. That doing this is public health hazard by even allowing advertising of said products. The following individual testified that her son that was addicted to cannabis in Colorado and proclaimed that he relapsed in Colorado in the 2019 session, told the committee that her son relapsed under the current Texas hemp program. The individual went well over their allotted time with no note that her time was up.

Much of testimony at this point is against hemp as it stands or a full out ban. One advocacy group noted it is because people without medical access for treatment in rural are using cannabis as a treatment without access to get them off of it once they get the addiction the witness claims they will get. One was a high school student and a resident of San Antonio noting that there are retail locations near schools that make it accessible, but have failed to provide evidence that it’s being sold to minors up front.

One individual that noted he grew up under the prohibition mindset and was taught cannabis was a bad deal, noted that people have to take responsibility and that the state needs to put the rails in place so that good people get access while bad actors are punished for such. Two parents followed up with how they are parents have children that used and got in trouble, one admitted that she called the cops on her kid herself and he had a mental break – to which she says the cannabis induced.

Shayda Torabi of Restart-CBD testified that she is against a ban and as a retailer she is age-gating product sales. She notes that knee jerk reactions are not the way to eliminate bad actors. She notes solutions such as age gating, and pulling bad actors out of the market when caught. REtired Army Officer David Bass testified with note that he is in the medical program for his military PTSD. He continues with noting that many veterans and consumers are going for these hemp products because of the cost economics of doing so compared to the medical program as it stands. He advocates for the same items others have said are proper answer with regulation.

Dr. Zibirkous who is a neuroscientist that has been doing research on cannabis for years testified on the subject as well. He noted about proper education and that the government has federally approved of THC as chemical for medical treatment and has had such status since the 1970’s. This was followed not too long after with a medical doctor representing many physicians and the Texas Medical Association that was noting what they are seeing in the medical field regarding children. The testimony amounted to not much more than that from her. Mitch Fuller of the Texas VFW and Lucas Gilkey testified to solutions to the issue and not leaving responsible people out.

Sen Perry noted at the end of those testimonies that he tried to put these measures forward (he in fact did not as his bills were going to eliminate those products the same way this committee has discussed doing so in the next session) in the last session and it was opposed by the industry. Then Perry accused the industry of following the tobacco playbook of the 1950’s and 1960’s and that it’s bad actors clinging to keep their unethical market alive.

TXCANNACO Board member and veteran advocacy leader Shaun Salvaje testified as to how cannabis has been a solution for her debilitating conditions. She noted to Senator Perry that the majority of the businesses are not big tobacco style lobbyists with that type of power. That she’s concerns about kids getting their hands on it as a mother of two, and knows that just making an illicit product even more illicit won’t solve the problem.

Towards the end of the testimonies a young 19-year-old man named Mario testified about how he sees the issue from the lens of being a recent high school graduate. He notes that never has prohibition solved the issue, but that he has also seen the dangers of addiction regarding alcohol within his own family that notes he’s not unfamiliar with the family struggles brought up earlier.

Attorney David Sergei who is part of the delta-8 lawsuit and current injunction awaiting a hearing testified on the topic. He brought up an unmentioned note of what happens if a ban goes into place> The kids that are having problems won’t magically get better and will likely still have issues that results with them going to jail. And that’s not a better answer/result for the state or its citizens either.